circular-reasoning

Religious Hard Talk

After reading Spanish Inquistor’s blog I have a few questions about religion and Christianity that i need answering. It seems that whenever a person is unsure about the whole religion thing and they need questions answered, the people who should know the answer either don’t answer with them saying that you shouldn’t question what is or they give you some round the bush answer that doesn’t really answer anything. You know what I’m talking about, the whole FAITH answer, you know, telling you to have faith and don’t question God for if you do bad thing will happen. Its like a big circle with every question having the same answer being recycled over and over again.

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Someone once said religion is the opium of the people but its better to say religion is the rod of conformation. What better way to keep society in control, have a book with a set of guidelines written not by man but through man from divine intervention by a supreme being. Live your life by these guidelines and have eternal happiness, if you don’t you shall burn in a fiery pit for all eternity. Wow, some choice, conform or burn. In order to prevent people from not accepting what religion (Christianity) preaches someone invented faith, a nice word which means in my point of view “to follow blindly” and when people like me ask questions they cover their ears and make some incoherent sounds to prevent themselves from hearing.

(I think that this is the point that those people I’m talking will leave this page.)

I am not an atheist or agnostic i just have some questions before i commit to something, I’m not like the second monkey who jumped of the bridge because the first one jumped. If i remember correctly (from my days at Sunday school) God gave us free will, to choose how we want live our life and what we should believe just that if you make the wrong one you will go to hell (some choice huh). So in order to make the right choice i am going to take a scientific approach…pose the questions that i have and based on the evidence i will make a decision and not just take hearsay as Gospel (pun intended).

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So without further ado here are my questions:

  1. In the beginning…. it seems to me that most of this section of the Bible is highly speculative seeing that pretty much there wasn’t any written history around this time and if God put all the answers of how we came about in some guys dream he was being rather vague, i mean where are stuff like the dinosaurs? its hard to miss these large lizards prowling the earth. why didn’t he mention that the earth was round instead of having people stumble around in the dark killing people because they said it was flat.
  2. Why create evil? seeing that God was the only thing that existed why did he create evil could he have just made everything good?
  3. I suppose it can be said that God made the devil- again with some Sunday school memory, wasn’t the devil a angel of God’s and he became jealous and was cast down? why would God make angels, beings who are supposed to have been infused with as much goodness as possible and one became evil enough to be the Ying to God’s Yang.
  4. If God can see the past, present and future why didn’t he see that the devil was gonna become a nuisance? or was that what he wanted? because if that is it then he is rather wicked.
  5. Why is there an Old and New Testament? From the picture that was painted, God shouldn’t make mistakes and have to revise some of that was said in the Old Testament.
  6. Last time i checked we were all God’s children so why is Jesus special,was he asexually produced by God or does God have a wife. A lot of people say God, Jesus and the Holy spirit is three in one, why is there three?
  7. If God gave us free will maybe that answers a lot of the questions above. But if thats the case the bible could be a hoax. If we the writers of the bible had free will then maybe they wrote crap (note: not C.R.A.P.). Kings have huge egos and time and time again we have seen them use icons and ideologies for their own purpose, maybe the Bible was one of them. King James could have said “Take the early idea of early Christianity and write it in such a way to make it look like guidelines just so that i can control the people.”
  8. I’m pretty sure that all the writings that were done by early Christians and disciples that were meant for the Bible weren’t put in there, so am i getting the whole story? How can i make a right choice without the whole story…i need the whole story.
  9. The Commandments- Your whole life is based around those things and face it man is not too smart, so why make it so ambiguous? for example, “honor thy mother and father”, does that mean that if my father/mother molested me am i suppose to honor them still? because it didn’t have any subsection with stipulations, will i go to hell if i don’t? The commandment “thou shalt not covet thine neighbors belongings” hmmm does that mean that if i am really in love with my neighbors shoes and i go out and buy one exactly like it am i going to hell? and the other one “thou shall not covet thine neighbors wife” Again i cant have sexy thoughts about my neighbors wife? i don’t see whats bad about that. And lastly, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” Does that mean there are other gods, but you shouldn’t worship them? because there is a definite differentiation between idols and gods according to the commandments.
  10. What could the people in the Bible do that was sooo bad that God killed all of them in a flood save a handful and started anew? what could be worse than what people are doing today (holocaust, WW1, WW2, crusades, inquisition etc etc etc)
  11. A mother and father grew up a child to kill, he didn’t know that killing was wrong, he didn’t know about God, Christianity or any form of religion. He died, will he go to hell seeing that technically he didn’t know better and he was just ‘honoring’ his mother and father?
  12. What will happen to all those people who didn’t know about God/Christianity and were worshiping buddah, Allah or whoever ? Will they receive a get out of hell free card?
  13. What if you live your life good, you did the right things but you just didn’t follow any religion, will you go to hell too?
  14. If the Bible is right why are there so many denominations with each saying they are right, evidently one must be wrong and if thats the case who should i believe?
  15. The early church (Roman Catholic) killed a lot of people in the name of God, trying to convert the pagans to the one true faith, believe or die. Seeing that the early church was based on the fortunes obtained through these massacres and they killed (and the commandments didn’t say anything about thou shalt not kill unless its for God) isn’t the Church today based off bloodshed and violence? How can you believe in an institution that has its foundation of death and bloodshed. Most of the Christian territories today weren’t by choice but by force…is that right? Don’t say for the greater good, because in this case the end does NOT justify the means.
  16. If you speak against God or ask questions you are blaspheming, why is that? it seems to me thats just there to ensure that you don’t ask questions like these and find the many fallacies. I should think, that if you ask and you get a great answer backed by proof and irrefutable facts Christianity and the whole idea of God would get more believers.
  17. If all sin carry the same weight except blaspheming and presumptuously sinning (Sunday School). Are you saying that if i lie or kill I’m going to hell either way, isn’t that harsh, putting me beside Hitler when all i did was tell a little white lie.
  18. You cant deny that a lot of those early disciples and early Christians were very simple minded, maybe one day they ate too much hashish and had a mass dream, or they saw someone drowning and assumed Jesus was walking on water or the resurrection was just them seeing what they wanted to see, too many tears and sadness will cause hallucinations too you know.
  19. Someone also told me that Jesus said that there will be many impersonators so do not believe them. What if someone appeared saying they were Jesus and he/she did a lot of wonderful, miracles and told you to write a new new testament would you believe them?
  20. A lot of those early teachings read like things you should do in those earlier times for example, don’t fornicate. That just sounded to me like “hey y’all don’t have contraceptives and a kid in a broken home wont work cause women are treated like shit and thats not good to have a kid being grown up by a mother alone especially with ignorant people around”. Maybe now if there was a new new testament it would read “fornicate cuz yall have contraceptives and even if the girl get pregnant, no one cares she can raise the child and probably that child will grow up ok, its not frowned upon, and who says you have to be married to have kids, i mean the father can still take care of his kids” Don’t you think so?
  21. With everyone holding a cross and praying to it/through it or whatever isn’t the cross like an idol? aren’t we manifesting and image of the Lord thy God through the cross? its just interesting that at the front of the church there is a cross that everyone is praying to…looks like an idol to me. After all we weren’t told by God (at least i don’t think so) to use a cross to help worship him.

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Well, i think thats it for now, i hope i can get some answers

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Additional Questions from Ed (link to comment):

But wait there’s more:

  1. How can we have free-will AND an all-knowing god? This would mean that he already knows what we will be doing next!
  2. Speaking of free-will, if god creates everyone, and he creates someone with limited skills/knowledge isn’t he limiting that persons “free-will”? No amount of willing will make me run if I’m stuck in a wheelchair…
  3. Since we are not the original source of evil, wouldn’t an all-powerful, all-just, all-knowing god destroy the ROOT of evil instead (HIS own creation, Satan) instead of everyone else (and yet, he keep Satan around)? “Hmm… that snake is going to cause trouble… maybe I should poof it out of existence…”
  4. I know he said he’d never flood the Earth again, blah blah blah, but isn’t that like a parent allowing a baby to play on a rooftop? Someone call DCFS!
  5. Your religion is largely based on your family and your location. Christians like to believe that everyone else is wrong but… how can I be wrong for being born WHERE I was born and brought up to believe what my family believes (Christian or not)? After all, god made me AND put me WHERE I’m at…
  6. God created languages (to confuse and divide people- not unlike religions) but what if my language has no concept of god?
  7. Speaking of birth, if god created us, why did we get certain instincts pre-programmed, but we are not born with the one true religion? What is to say then that we will ever come across the “correct path” to him?
  8. Ghosts- can they fly through walls? Does it hurt them? So how can one’s soul burn in hell? Feelings are due to nerves in our bodies, right?
  9. Why not just appear to us all RIGHT NOW? End the bloodshed, unite us all, correct the wicked. People could still CHOOSE (free-will) to ignore, disbelieve, be wicked, etc. but at least they were shown proof instead of having to cherry-pick through some ancient book’s stories, misinterpretations, and mistakes.
  10. Should we ALL still be punished for Adam and Eve? Isn’t that a bit harsh? Why dont we just send everyone to jail because a few of us are bad? If my puppy cannot pass algebra class should he be punished for it? Or should I know better than to expect the puppy to EVER know algebra? The same applies to Adam, the snake, and the apple.

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26 comments

  1. RoXanStone

    Well I’m not really the best consultant on things religious. I’m one of the sheep – I follow simply becuz I’ve been told to and bcuz I’m scared of the alternative (hell). I too have had my questions abt some of the things u’ve mentioned. My guess is that u will never get any irrefutable answers for some questions. That’s why we rely on faith to fill the gaps. Those who reject the idea of faith either become atheists or embark on a journey to find their own proof. I watched a documentary recently where a scientist was basically saying that science too relies heavily on faith (science is developed by ppl conducting experiments to (dis)prove their hypotheses which very often is later debunked by another scientist). It therefore follows that in trying to seek conclusive evidence to support one’s religious beliefs must involve some level of faith…which takes u back to square one.

    As for the other questions, I think the answers are in the Bible… u might need to consult some deeply religious person who knows the Bible better than the average person. I think some of ur questions do have plausible answers, I have asked those questions and have received satisfactory answers except that I’ve now forgotten the details (lol yea for real). So good luck!!!! Tell me what u hear lol

  2. Sigh… faith faith faith thats all i hear. I always say faith means to “follow blindly”. I cannot accept that as an answer. If i go into an exam and i was asked the question “how do i know the earth is round” can i answer saying faith? i don’t think so. So why should religion be any different. The bible is too ambiguous, i can go to 5 different very religious pastors and ask them the same question and they will give be probably five different answers that can all be proven to be right by the bible.

  3. RoXanStone

    well u cant answer saying “faith” but u would have to rely on something that was previously “proven” by someone else. and until some1 disproves that theory saying the earth is not spherical but some other shape…i’m pretty sure u will continue to believe that the earth is round. science doesnt not equal certainty. u are also putting ur “faith” in the hands of men. how do u know that the experiment was properly conducted? that what was documented is the truth? how do u know that the “evidence” was not fabricated? u really dont. and thats the point. are u going to reject science too? the fact is u cant get past this element of faith unless ur omniscient.

    Yes u might receive different answers from different pastors. It’s up to u to decide which makes the most sense… and where there is a gaping hole in the answers…seek ur own answers and have faith lol. I’m not really into religion, I’m more into spirituality. Forget the institutions, i just deal directly with the Divine, having faith that there is a God that created us except that I try to find him thru the Bible (in theory, i dont actually own a Bible but that’ll be my approach).

  4. Shonari, wow you ask some tough and thought provoking questions! I don’t know that I can answer them all at on time. Maybe one at a time.
    First it seems you may be overwhelmed, because of the importance of your decisions. And you are approaching “faith” in a reasonable way. That is very commendable. I can share with you from personal experience that Jesus’ promise to, “Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be oppened to you” will come true in your life. It did in mine.
    Our faith journey has many struggles, beginning, middle and end, but what good (or great) things have ever come easy?

    The first question, about creation and dinosaurs and stuff. God didn’t hand us down a science book, he handed us down a book that showed us where sin entered the world, how it affected us (our relationship with Him and one another) and how He was going to address the problem. So the real important fact of Genesis and why He handed it down to us isn’t science, it’s salvation.

    God’s blessings on your journey!
    Tim

  5. Spanish Inquisitor

    Yes, I think they are also good questions, but frankly, most of them the way you’ve posed them, are rhetorical, i.e. you’ve already answered them. You already have a good sense that the religious topics you mentioned don’t make a lot of sense. You actually have two potential, but mutually exclusive, paths ahead of you in answering the questions:

    1. Take the religious approach, and try your damnedest to square everything, by interpreting the hell out of what you read. As an atheist, I call that after-the-fact rationalization. Either the book is the word of God, or it is not. If you start cherry picking the words, putting some in the metaphor pile, others in the symbolism pile, and the rest in the literalism pile, who do you get to define, in advance, the characteristics of each pile? Who makes the decision as to what is metaphor and what is literal? And what if you make the wrong choice and put something in the wrong pile? Decisions, decisions! And it’s supposed to be so clear.

    2. Take the non-religious approach, and assume that the book is exactly what bible scholars say it is – a bunch of writings set down by bronze age goat herders during a time when it was impossible to explain the world around them without resort to myths and stories intended to explain the unexplainable. Once you realize that it is a book written by humans about humans, who used God as a metaphor, a place marker, if you will, for those things that later would be explained by science as natural, you are on your way to fully understanding that it is NOT the word of God.

    It’s your choice. I think the path is obvious. But it’s your path to figure out. Just use your brain, your ability to think things through, a little skepticism when explanations don’t seem to make sense. Critical thinking, logic and reason are your best tools. Faith is not a tool, it is an impediment to knowledge. When someone says “have faith” they are saying, “Stop searching for the answer, and accept mine.”

  6. I did didn’t i? hehe, I have answered some of them (thats what i think so far) but i need to hear from ‘the other side’. My answers are somewhat flawed as i do not have any form of religious background and in order to make a fair assessment i need to hear what people of faith or anyone who has an opinion have to say about the questions.

    Route 1: I’ll need some input from people of faith, explaining some of the question posed.

    Route 2: Just continue on the path i am already on.

    I may sound like im joking but im dead serious, i am really interested in the answers because i am confused.

  7. to Roxanstone, im still waiting for sumone to (dis)prove religion. And about science, it makes sense, we can do the tests ourselves to see if what they say is true or not. for example to find out if the world is round jump in a plane and fly in a straight line, if you reach back at your starting point the world is round, a scientific approach. With religion you cant you just follow blindly, so hence the questions.

  8. RoXanStone

    LOL u have a point there my friend. but i notice u said “im still waiting for sumone to (dis)prove religion” so are u admitting that u cant disprove religion? i’ll try and answer ur questions, maybe not today but in the mean time (i dont know if im doing the right thing by saying this) i’d like for u to show me how u disprove religion? i await ur answer…i guess u’ll tell me when i’m in retirement lol i think it’ll make for good conversation.

    Until then,
    RoXanStone

  9. ok lemme spell i out…im still waiting for someone to prove/disprove religion.

  10. RoXanStone

    heyyyy, go easy on the insults, LOL. i get wat ur saying – u jus need solid reasons before u make a choice. well as i said in previous responses i am not the person to ask. hope some1 comes along with some solid answers. I also dont think the approach where ppl say u cant prove God exists so He doesnt when they cant prove He doesnt exist either (im not talking bout u) is the way to go.

  11. Someone said: “Faith is not a tool, it is an impediment to knowledge. When someone says “have faith” they are saying, “Stop searching for the answer, and accept mine.””
    Faith will never go against reason, because it is “your” faith. You have to experience your own faith, you can’t experience someone eleses faith. But this faith only grows as we exercise it. That means deepening our relationship to God through Jesus Christ. We do this through prayer, worship and reading scripture.
    Faith is God’s gift to us (personally) so that we can understand that which cannot be seen (Heb. 11:1).
    Keep searching!

  12. Jamila

    Faith: They say it is the act of believing in something without reason. This belief is usually based on social traditions or personal hopes.

    Throughout history many philosophers have been espousing the idea of life and its purpose which have led them to various theories. For instance there is the idea of faith being the basis of all knowledge. I think many of us find ourselves in this position; “faith seeking understanding”. I think it goes beyond any religion. It is when one believes in something in order to have basis for knowledge or the quest for this knowledge.

    So for me it is more of the fact that I have faith or believe that the Truth is out there, and in order for me to find this Truth I have to filter through the information. The credibility that something greater than us exists must be evaluated and processed. There is information out there that is wrong and will be rejected. It is rational at the intuitive level that allows us to trust that there is a Supreme Being / Divine Force in the absence of other sources of information.

    It is irrational to cling to everything that we are originally taught in the face of evidence which proves otherwise. You do possess the faith that an unknown discovery is possible. Also you have the passionate commitment to finding such a result. We have a unique capability to notice and investigate patterns and connections at which to derive a satisfactory answer. Until one possesses knowledge in totality you require an understanding of yourself.

    As far as I know there is no historical evidence that has managed to convince the entirety of the community of historians on earth that any one religion is true. Basically a lot of them have teachings that are common to each other. Logically it is impossible that all these different religions with their contradictory beliefs can simultaneously be objectively true. I think the different religions are just different paths to the same goal. The goal is to attribute meaning to life; figure out who were are and why we are here. To give meaning to life by forming a relationship to a power that is greater than us. I think deepening this relationship requires more than prayer, worship and reading scripture like stated in a comment above; we need to experience it. It is a personal experience which enables us to know we are powerful beyond measure and that thought in itself is frightful. And for those who wish to quote scripture it says we were created in his image and likeness so “logically” we possess those same inner virtues within.

    All I can suggest is to forget about religion. Religion just seem to be another system put in place to put order on what they say would have been a chaotic world. I mean we have religion and the world still isn’t a peaceful place. There is too many “ifs”, “buts” and “maybe”. You can still be knowledgeable about them; know what they are about: even pick and choose which teachings you wish to adopt.

    So if you want something to commit to…..commit to yourself in your quest for answers…..

    Jamila

    P.S. Writing this has helped me answer a few questions of my own.

  13. God

    You mentioned “Get Out of Hell Free” cards. They exist (and they’re cheap!) Get a packet and save yourself a lot of worry and trouble.

  14. thanks so far…about the questions…?

    every answer so far comes back to faith but what does faith have to do with the questions i asked…i wasnt debating if God exists (thats another post). those questions cant hold faith as an answer…it wont equate.

  15. Wheeler

    I belive in religion like i do bigfoot or the loc ness monster
    until I see some proof, I dont beleive

  16. Dan

    we are all very insignificant and ignorant and i dare you to say otherwise. looking out into space we see an infinite expanse of the universe and we have no explanation as to why this is the way it is. Simply the miracle of life should be looked at and it should be recognized that we know very little. Sure, we can observe and experiment to some degree but ultimately we are all left we questions that most likely will never be answered in our lifetimes.

    that is where faith comes in, everyone has faith in something, no matter what it is

  17. TR1P

    for questions 1 & 2 i have a little of how i believe. Dinosaurs in my opinion were created with the ret of the animals, but i believe that the periods of time between the “days” were different, i believe one “day” could have meant a measure of time eqialling 1 literal day to a billion years it’s one of those in the eye of the beholder moments. On the evil thing God made free will he didn’t want us to love him because he said so, he wants us to love him cause we want to. but Science is proven through guessing just as much as christianity is, Carbon dating of soil is supposed to be accurate, how do we know it is? people walked on the moon. right? we weren’t there so we have to follow blindly whether we see it that way or not. i’m just gonna let you find your own way, but i’ll ask you this, if you have faith in God and die and that’s it you go into a black space and you’re done, what did you lose? a little bit of partying, and other things you can definately live without. but what if you’re right and you go to heaven, and what if you don’t have faith with the above situations, maybe an early death cause of all the partying, and just black still, but what if hell DOES exist, do you wanna spend eternity burning? personally i think that would be horrible. beside who would you rather be stuck in a room with a scientologist that believes everything happens by chance and that you’ve got a 50/50 chance of walking out alive, or someone that believe he was put in that room for a reason and that you aren’t guarenteed a chance to walk out, but by faith you can? pretty much do you wanna chill with people who make you sad or people who lift you up and made you feel confident?

    i believe in Heaven and Hell and that faith is the thin line separating a person from going to hell, but i can’t give someone faith, that’s you own choice.

    well you’ve read my ramblings so i’ll let you talk now

  18. ed

    But wait there’s more:

    22. How can we have free-will AND an all-knowing god? This would mean that he already knows what we will be doing next!

    23. Speaking of free-will, if god creates everyone, and he creates someone with limited skills/knowledge isn’t he limiting that persons “free-will”? No amount of willing will make me run if I’m stuck in a wheelchair…

    24. Since we are not the original source of evil, wouldn’t an all-powerful, all-just, all-knowing god destroy the ROOT of evil instead (HIS own creation, Satan) instead of everyone else (and yet, he keep Satan around)? “Hmm… that snake is going to cause trouble… maybe I should poof it out of existence…”

    25. I know he said he’d never flood the Earth again, blah blah blah, but isn’t that like a parent allowing a baby to play on a rooftop? Someone call DCFS!

    26. Your religion is largely based on your family and your location. Christians like to believe that everyone else is wrong but… how can I be wrong for being born WHERE I was born and brought up to believe what my family believes (Christian or not)? After all, god made me AND put me WHERE I’m at…

    27. God created languages (to confuse and divide people- not unlike religions) but what if my language has no concept of god?

    28. Speaking of birth, if god created us, why did we get certain instincts pre-programmed, but we are not born with the one true religion? What is to say then that we will ever come across the “correct path” to him?

    29. Ghosts- can they fly through walls? Does it hurt them? So how can one’s soul burn in hell? Feelings are due to nerves in our bodies, right?

    30. Why not just appear to us all RIGHT NOW? End the bloodshed, unite us all, correct the wicked. People could still CHOOSE (free-will) to ignore, disbelieve, be wicked, etc. but at least they were shown proof instead of having to cherry-pick through some ancient book’s stories, misinterpretations, and mistakes.

    31. Should we ALL still be punished for Adam and Eve? Isn’t that a bit harsh? Why dont we just send everyone to jail because a few of us are bad? If my puppy cannot pass algebra class should he be punished for it? Or should I know better than to expect the puppy to EVER know algebra? The same applies to Adam, the snake, and the apple.

    • Absolutely brilliant!

      Exactly what ive been wondering. Especially #28.

  19. Msofnofaith

    1. the bible was not written by god. it was written by normal men over a period of time and combined in one big book.dinosaurs were around way before the bible was written, according to religious persons, jesus was around 2, 000 years ago. examination of fossils show that dinosaurs existed long before that time.

    2. for every action there is an equal and OPPOSITE reaction. the men who wrote the bible had to create an opposite to the good that god encompasses, to make it more believable. there is jerry…and there is tom. there has to be a bad guy.

    3. see answer 2.

    4. its hard to imagine but actually there may be no god, well i don’t believe in one or a few. hence the inability of this god knowing wat happens in the future to prevent it now.

    5. there is no difference between old and new testament. its all speaks of the vengeful god that will kill 1st born children yet is like the shepherd that takes care of his sheep, and an eye for an eye and also loving your enemies.

    6. the trinity is made up, in the same way that allah is made up.

    7. u seem to have answered these question yourself.

    8. the whole story is …it is a story! are u satisfied with worshipping and basing the existence of your being and life on a story?

    9. you also answered this one by urself

    10. the god of the bible loves to kill…simple.

    11.according to the judeo-christian religions …yes…he is going to burn in hell for eternity. but if he is catholic and he prays to mary on his death bed mayb he will get sent to purgatory and his family may(if they choose) pray ferevently to mary to have mercy on his soul and upgrade him to heaven.

    12. again, if u are not brainwashed then yes…you are going to hell.

    13. see #12

    14. you should not believe any, do some research.

    15. because god forgives. kill, steal, rob and then turn to god and u should be ok and safely on the way to heaven. also accepted in a large group of people who believe the same things you believe.

    16. because if you question it too much you will come to realise that it has no foundation. control is cheaper than punishment.

    17. you can get a free pass to heaven if you sin millions of times but just apologise to god as soon as you can after and promise never to do it again. it does not matter how many people you hurt when you sin.

    18. you answered that one yourself. drugs are bad, stay in school.

    19. nope…i would think he is dellusional and should be admitted in a mental institution.

    20. marriage in its ‘truest’ form is an institution invented by the church. pastors get paid to perform these ceremonies. wouldn’t you want to continue making an extra buck? No Fornication was aimed at women, men wanted to marry virgins.

    21. Religious symbols are invented as a form of control and to aid the process of discrimination. The star of david is the symbol used by the Jews. How did Hitler know the jews? Also during the Reformation…how did cromwell know the catholics?

    Disclaimer: The views expressed are definitely my own.

  20. Msofnofaith

    @ Ed

    22. Compatibilism- some ppl believe both and claim to be logically consistent

    23. my take on that is good things happen to good people, good things also happen to bad people and vice versa. I am not a subscriber to creationalism. if you asked this question to the right religious person they would try to explain to you that children born with any disability or illness is evidence of the sins of the parent.

    24. once again…its a story, it needs to be entertaining

    25. but why would a ‘creator’ flood the earth and kill all his ‘creation’? Trees included! What did the trees do? Would you have sex with someone to make a child then turn around and kill it?

    26. And the same goes for predominantly islamic, catholic and jewish socities. Of course they are also right and everyone else is wrong.

    27. Language is evidence of the evolution of mankind…neurological and otherwise. nothing to do with god or the tower of babel.

    28. correct path to god??? imagine a world with none of this religious intolerance. the path is life…u are born and then u enjoy what the earth has to offer, other humans and the living things, then you die. The end.

    29. You just gave me another reason why this religion thing is a farce. Cheers dude! Dang! How comes I have never ever thought of that myself …souls have no nerve endings.

    30. Uhhhmmm…because the concept of god is completely man made as far as I can see. I am still waiting to hear the thundering voice from the sky.

    31. yes your puppy is stupid, i think you should put it to sleep. Its stealing your oxygen. Not all humans are logical, clear thinking human beings. If you doubt that you should visit *******.

  21. alfonso balansag, jr.

    I think I don’t need to answer all those questions. All I need is believed that there is God, that there is life after death, continue respecting others rights based on morality and live a holy life(not an earthly life).

  22. Ronin

    A few things…..

    1. The Holy Bible was written by made over a period of time that was divinely inspired by God. In addition to this, if God is all powerful then changing time and changing the progression of it, would be possible. So, a day to him could be any amount of time to man. And technically in The Holy Bible there are two creation stories. One that is glanced over and then a detailed one a few chapters later. But I’ll disregard that fact. Plus why would God want to throw down in his book that he decided to have some fun on a Friday night creating some stuff between bottles of rum?

    2. & 3. Well IF God is perfectly morally good then there is the problem of evil and God’s hand in it. But what if God is so powerful, in fact all powerful, that morals don’t apply in such a way that an evil event could be used for what ever his end goal would be? Given of course that their is an end game. Thus God would not be ‘good’ or ‘evil’ but would use such things to forward his own end game? This would first off eliminate the morality ‘issue’. Thus the creation of Satan and the presence of Evil in the world regardless of its form is not only permissible, but required for God’s end game. So study hard, be evil.

    4. God is simple using Satan, the personification of evil, and his brood for God’s own wishes. Even though that sounds pretty evil though but why would it be wicked if God is using for his own ends (good one I hope).

    5. The creation of the ‘New Testament’ was formulation I think around 431 AD in a town named Nicea. By this point in time, Christianity was moving from a cult phenomenon to a 4 star status symbol which helped to legitimate it for the next damn near good amount of time (hundreds of years). About this time, Christianity was able to set down its perspective of life, the world and everything in it and become a legit religious organization and not a back water cult, that much of the Western World thought it was at that point in time. But this is of course the ‘New Testament’ according to the Catholics. Because the East Orthodox church, and Protestants have a different ‘New Testament’. And by different I mean their some books that are included in some that ain’t in others. The ‘Old Testament’ was also formulated around this time too (I really don’t remember) but it was primarily used to set Christianity apart from Judaism, and Christianity eventually took on its own ‘life’. Also insert her plenty of revisions and translation issues galore, on a good day for both Testaments.

    6. Jesus is special because he, according to Christian Theology, is the physical and worldly manifestation of the Son of God. Divinely brought into this world by his mother Mary. And so God knocked up Mary and boom, 9 months later and probably 20+ hours of delivery you got, little baby Jesus. It was was Mary’s first kid so, its usually the longest delivery time wise. And after Jesus’s death and true resurrection (a level 17 cleric spell)he become a part of the Trinity which techniquely wasn’t fulfilled till the Holy Ghost showed up a few months after Jesus true resurrected from Earth into Heaven. And so once the Holy Ghost showed up, boom you have the Holy Trinity. Trinity, meaning a pact of three individuals or groups, and Holy, well use dictionary.com for that. There is a concept that they are in fact the same being just different facets of it. But that is up to your opinion’s if you believe that little bit.

    7. We have plenty of hoaxes and misinformation these days. Why do you believe anything? Let alone what you read any where at any time. Do you trust in your ability to read? Or could you have been taught wrong and in fact the World is laughing at you because of it. Or not. Its up to you. Don’t listen to me. I am just posting this is some blog on some corner of the internet. Or am I?

    Now as far as Kings and individuals with seriously high levels of influence using the Holy Bible for their own schemes and plans. That happens every day. People use cars to get from point A to point B, just how politicians use shit to press their own plans and schemes. Its in Human nature to use stuff, regardless if it manipulating the minds of people or of nature around us to get what we want. Period.

    8. Why do you need the whole story? Has anyone ever made a permanent life changing decision without enough data? And that’s just based upon the data alone. Let alone any other factors that be playing a role. But yes there are other books, but mostly fragments these days, and most of which are of the Gnostic perspective.

    9. In Leviticus, Deuteronomy and I think in Exodus too there are listings of addition laws too. So what about them. They were laws for the Jewish people during that particular time in history that regulated their daily lives and some even today adhere to it. And usually its take literal, but that’s usually all of them or cherry picked. But why have them? Because they set down a type of rule based morality for the Jewish people at that particular time in history. In addition to this it also created social norms and mores for them to follow. Thus also creating a distinctive set of cultural rules and regulations, again for that particular time in history.

    10. Have you ever cooked something that ended up being so bad you ordered that terrible Chinese takeout from up the street? Boom. That’s it. God’s creation, given free will and allowed to do what ever, when ever, at the cost of what ever came together in such a way to create a nice little cluster fuck. And God took care of it. Enter her man’s perspective of the world at the time was basically Northern Africa, Western Europe (but really like 2/3 of it), and some parts of the Middle East. So one massive ass flood, destroyed their world which just so happened to correlate to….you guessed it. Man acting a fool, caught with his pants down. And railed like……well…..I’m going to keep this clean. So destroyed, in short. And those that were ‘Good’ or had their shit together survived.

    11. According to the over 100 different perspectives of Protestantism alone, you will get at least 100 different answers. And that’s not counting the Catholics and East Orthodox. I’m not going to judge that kid’s soul or his parent’s souls. But as a parent, why raise a kid to be like that? Seriously there has got be a better avenue for success for your offspring than to purse killing people indiscriminately. Personally, I think that is your weakest question on here. And roots into nature vs nurture, and his only threads of a direct correlation to the other questions.

    12. See the first half of the answer for number 11. Depends.

    13. See above is the short answer. The long answer is:

    If a person were to lead a ‘evil’ life by all accountable measures, and to an extreme. And lets say God does exist and God is morally good. Then it is probable to say that God very well might have a special place set aside for them.

    If a person were to lead the same life as above and God doesn’t exist. Then this evil person, is dead. Good riddance.

    If a person were to lead a ‘good’ life by all accountable measures, and to an extreme. And lets say God does exist and God is morally good. Then it is probable to say, they made it into Heaven

    If a person were to lead a ‘good’ life by all accountable measures, and to an extreme. And lets say God does not exist. Then the world just lost a remarkable soul, to say the least.

    14. They are all right. In there own particular way (personal preferences). Many of the denominations of Protestantism is based upon different theological and philosophical perspectives of what is drawn out of the Holy Bible. And that’s just based upon the text alone, not including any differences amongst the various rituals.

    15. When does the end justify the means? When it is only good for you as an individual, or as a group or as a nation or is it subjective? And if it is subjective, wouldn’t this also be subjective? Or is there such thing as life that tends to throw wenches and curve balls? Or am I just delirious and don’t know what I am talking about. I’ve been up going on 28 hours now. But I personally don’t believe in the Catholic church. But an aspect of Christianity is taking the word of Christ to the people, especially people who don’t know of him. Now have there been any other organizations throughout history that have used something to oppress others? Not a new concept is it? The Greeks did it. And so did the Romans. And the Assyrians. And the Babylonians. No offense, your second weakest question.

    16. From an extremist and uneducated perceptive, you are correct. But for the rest of the world and everyone else it is not.

    17. Well Jesus was sent here to save mankind. Not to damn us all. But that is correct, in most Christian doctrines. By the way, the old perspective of lying wasn’t a little white lie. It was usually more than that. Think lying on your taxes, by like 7 decimal places. Or even lying about a WMDs in a country that no longer had them and sending people over there to die on both sides of the conflict.

    18. And the internet, the Declaration of Independence, and the Spirit I’m drinking all were made by Theodore Kaczynski? Yes, they were simple people. But do you really think that they really decided one day to smoke a ton and a half of Hash and Paul stood up and said, “Lets start a religion?”. Really? No. What about Pastafarianism? Well what about it? It has a legitimate way of express a full world view and how things were created, with a doctrine of thought and canon (Holy Texts). Now a person’s belief in it, that’s up to the person. Is it any more or less relevant than Christianity, or any other religion out there? No, its on the same level, in my perspective.

    Your second point to this question. What about things happening that we today understand by means of the progression of Science and Technology that they didn’t know back then? Well, do you think in 3 thousand more years from now, people will be asking the same damn question? Fuck ya. Science and Technology has changed, the human condition has not. They still looked for food, wanted to be loved, and wanted something to love and someone else to love. And probably feel like they were making some amount of different in the lives of the people around them. Wait…..wait….That sounds all too human. Perhaps, only the times have changed and the rise of education and non secular institutions and the normal progression of human history. But lets deny all that. It was the hash.

    19. I’d tell them to write it them damn self. In fact, I’ll throw it on youtube.com If it is legitimately Jesus, then it is. If it ain’t, it ain’t.

    20. Social control and keeping people in line. In addition to that, during the time of the ‘Old Testament’, it took all day to clean the house and take care of the kids. That was literally a full time job. And without man in the house to go out and work. Their would literally be no income coming into the house hold to pay for food. And thus people starved. There was no social welfare programs. And people lived and died of what we call common disease these days. In addition to that most people were dead by 40. Especially women due to childbirth. Having twins before modern medicine was damn near death sentence for the woman. And by Modern I mean the passed three hundred years. Regardless of the continent at that junction in time, women were responsible for half of society, literally. Because who were raising the next generation? Not the Fathers, and if they were alive and not sent off to war. They were sent to fields, or other heavy manual labor (for the vast majority). All for a days wages. And yes there is a difference between the ‘Old’ and ‘New’ testament, a few thousand years. So of course the references alone would sent them apart. Let alone the developments in society (just history alone). And today, in the past 100 years it has been possible fore a women to raise children on their own (yes, I know it has happened before that, but that was when people didn’t travel more than 500 miles from where they were born. I shit you not). Many of the rules in the ‘Old’ Testament where in fact a way to guide one’s life. And the ‘New’ Testament, added more content and shades of grey (in my opinion).

    21. For the first few hundred years of Christianity, the Roman Cross wasn’t the representation of Christianity. It was that fish sign, only after the development of the Catholic church did Jesus and the Cross (on and off) become a representation of Christianity. And that is what it is. A representation of Jesus, an aspect of God. So it is not a direct idol.

    Extended Remix….the other questions…..

    1. Have you ever spent a serious amount of time around toddlers and preschool children? That is what we humans have been for the past thousands of years. We still squabble over everything that’s given we are speaking the same language and even then there is problems. And that’s amongst people trying to push forward toward the same cause. In short, God gave us free will. He knows all possible out comes of all possible actions, all the time. God just does what he wants when he wants. And why is why important?

    2. Well if you just sit there, ain’t shit gonna happen. What you going do about your issues and your problems? Sit there and cry. Please choose that option. And let the rest of the grown ups make actual decisions with their lives. He made us imperfect, in my opinion, to teach us to grow and get out of our own self. Have you ever made something before? After the process of making this item or thing, boom its there. And that’s it. Boom. Have you ever seen a person grow and develop over time with your help? Was it worth it? Have you ever had a direct influence upon the actions of others around you in positive way that lead directly toward something? How did it feel? Worth it? Was it like a boot the face? Would you, given the chance do something like it again or atleast take something from it too use for something else?

    3. Why, destroy evil? If there is no evil would we really have free will to choose that Apple?

    4. Would you really leave your kid on a roof and walk away? I dare you. No halfway decent parent would. But one that has a disregard for human life would. But also, a point in the life of the child, they grow up and make there own choices. Period. And thats were we are at as people living the human condition.

    5. Throwness. Look it up.

    6. So what if my language does. What does that mean to you? Your third weakest question.

    7. How do you know that you were not born for one particular branch of Christianity? Have you seriously tried them all equally to make an educated guess as to make a decision for or against Christianity through all of your religious experience with walking the path of what it means to be a Christian within all of the denominations thereof? So what are you to say that you were not?

    8. Actually feelings are only the electrical impulses interpenetrated by your brain with sociological, emotional, psychological and purely organic lenses through which your feelings emerge from. And so cultural, religious, educational, personal information and societal references are also factored into a feeling. So how you feel about a particular item, a movement of sorts with a middle finger, and what you do to relieve yourself (going to the bathroom) is aspects of nature and nurture. So that’s partial negative in reference to how your nerves make you feel. They can cause you feel something. But not always make you feel a certain way.

    9. It would be too easy. There would be no conflict. And we would just magically all of us in the world would magically fall in line. What world are you living in?

    10. In one word, yes. It was their free will that according to Christianity brought sin and death into the world. Not mine. But what I do with mine, will have ripples to those around me. In my opinion, that is the point of that story. To show us as humans, that our choices have consequences. Yes, we have free will to do what we want, when we want. But what kind of effect will it have? Its your decision.

  23. Mysto

    I’m willing to pose some thought provoking dialogue (responses) to your very well conceived and posed thoughts

  24. Mysto

    I’m willing to pose some thought provoking responses to your very well intended (so I hope) thoughts; but let’s take it step by step, one by one, in dialouge (?)

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